WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:01.163 [Automatic captions by Autotekst using OpenAI Whisper V3. May contain recognition errors.] 00:01.664 --> 00:03.266 My name is David Jordhus-Lier. 00:03.766 --> 00:12.783 I'm a professor of human geography at the University of Oslo, and together with co-authors Vivian Price and Camilla Houeland 00:12.784 --> 00:22.783 I've written an article entitled Structuring a Conversation Across Time, Space and Political Distance, published in the Annals of the Association of American Geographers. 00:24.321 --> 00:27.484 The article is in many ways a methodological discussion. 00:28.445 --> 00:40.595 It asks how a group of people who find themselves in the midst of the climate change debate, namely oil and gas workers, relate to each other and to environmental activists. 00:41.676 --> 00:58.346 It discusses how this group can benefit from a conversation that is less polarized, that encourages more reflection, and that has a slower tempo than the typical frenzy on social media. 00:59.907 --> 01:08.733 We discussed the possibilities of using focus group methodology and filmed interviews to enable such a conversation. 01:09.378 --> 01:15.808 Okay, so Vivian, you have lots of experience with documentary making and film. 01:16.769 --> 01:24.541 Maybe you could say something about the potential of this methodology for getting conversations to work across distances. 01:27.210 --> 01:27.571 VIVIAN: Sure. 01:30.154 --> 01:35.762 Making film is a wonderful way of exploring interior and external thoughts and ideas. 01:36.543 --> 01:44.614 It's a powerful way of combining visuals and voice to stimulate emotion, empathy, to see into someone else's reality. 01:45.894 --> 01:52.762 It's so difficult for people to understand one another's realities when we're so divided or because we don't live close to each other. 01:52.782 --> 02:04.555 In the U.S., calling for phasing out of oil is easy for some people who don't think about workers and difficult for workers who make their livelihoods in the industry. 02:06.105 --> 02:08.486 In our project, bringing oil workers from the U.S. 02:08.526 --> 02:22.109 like Charlie and Christian from Norway and Didi from Nigeria, gave us a chance to document similarities and differences that are caught on screen to share and consider with others, to promote dialogue. 02:23.150 --> 02:25.570 As a research tool, it opens up possibilities. 02:26.271 --> 02:30.952 For example, you, Camilla, brought quotes from the Norwegian workers to Nigeria and back. 02:33.012 --> 02:38.695 CAMILLA: In 2018-19 we talked to Norwegian oil workers and shop stewards in Norway. 02:39.475 --> 02:45.038 Many of them did acknowledge that global need to phase out oil and gas production. 02:45.658 --> 02:56.523 However, a very common argument among the Norwegian workers were that production should continue in Norway because it's "the cleanest" and by the way the most democratically managed. 02:57.623 --> 03:04.228 This view - implicitly or sometimes even explicitly - suggests that Nigerian oil production should be phased out. 03:05.209 --> 03:13.976 So we shared quotes from the Norwegian workers with their counterparts in Nigeria allowing them to respond and react. 03:14.596 --> 03:26.326 A typical reaction was "Norway should shut down first", with Nigerian workers referring to their dependence on oil and using development arguments for continued production. 03:26.946 --> 03:29.907 One of them said: "You think there's poverty now? 03:30.568 --> 03:35.070 Shut down oil production and then you will see and understand what poverty means." 03:36.270 --> 03:48.576 These responses in Nigeria were more ambivalent and mixed than the Norwegians, as voiced by Didi Orike, who is an oil worker, environmentalist and a former shop steward. 03:50.731 --> 03:54.092 DIDI: For me, this is my personal assessment now, I'm going to state. 03:54.832 --> 03:56.692 I have lost faith in the oil industry. 03:58.873 --> 04:00.993 The oil industry is not like it used to be. 04:01.013 --> 04:03.054 I used to tell my colleagues that the oil industry is dead. 04:03.714 --> 04:04.814 It does not exist anymore. 04:05.814 --> 04:07.054 You won't see it. 04:08.595 --> 04:10.655 There's complete lack of respect for oil workers. 04:12.135 --> 04:19.257 Most likely because the oil majors and the service companies are not making the kind of money they want to make. 04:20.262 --> 04:22.504 And then maybe it's because of the global situation too. 04:23.324 --> 04:25.286 So for me, there's no hope in the oil industry. 04:26.066 --> 04:35.233 If there's any country that should stop producing oil first towards fulfilling the transition motive, it should be Nigeria. 04:37.614 --> 04:47.221 One of my reasons is that of late, we've had serious environmental problems. 04:49.218 --> 04:50.119 It's from global warming. 04:51.299 --> 04:55.782 A lot of destruction happens almost every year in Nigeria due to flooding. 04:55.922 --> 04:57.563 Flooding that people have never seen before. 04:58.143 --> 05:06.148 So if Nigeria has to take this serious, then they should stop by producing oil and go into the transition fully. 05:07.682 --> 05:14.251 DAVID: So that gives you an idea of how Didi responded to the challenge posed by Norwegian oil and gas workers. 05:14.932 --> 05:20.340 And if you read the article, you'll also see how the Norwegian workers reacted to Didi's statement. 05:22.239 --> 05:28.541 Workers in fossil fuel industries hold an important key to ensuring a just transition away from oil and gas. 05:29.381 --> 05:36.483 So while the article is about a methodological issue, it's certainly also about a real political problem. 05:37.644 --> 05:39.044 Hopefully you'll enjoy the article.